Previous Youtube Playlists (not totally perfectly aligned with blog posts but close and may have, sometimes many additional videos in them as well that I saved):
- -Seems important, just the headlines even:
An Interview with Noam Chomsky, "We Cannot Trust the U.S. Anymore" SamproTV Global • 51K views • 2 months ago
A Parable on the Dangers of Banking - The Money Myth Exploded Leather Apron Club • 32K views • 2 years ago
Whitney Webb | The Scramble To Push A CBDC Future TFTC • 201K views • 1 month ago
Forgot to share, amazing video...:
May not make it this far within this blog post but...6.02.23 Morning Queue: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyayQwkmfwmCymFb4mnWWiOt4rkqgczqE
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Khalid ibn Walid, a Profile of a Warrior
The Austin School
49.2K subscribers
1,575,094 views Mar 1, 2022
Dr. Roy Casagranda explores the career of one of the greatest warriors in history. Khalid ibn Walid is essentially unknown outside of the Muslim world despite his brilliant victories. Dr. Casagranda ranks him with Thutmose III and Alexander the Great as having one of the three greatest military records.
------------------ May Allah be pleased with him - "The Sword of Allah (S.W.T.)" -------
Comments:
@fouadbenrezzak8398
9 months ago
Thousands will attend a music show but only 20 will attend Great teacher talking about a great piece of history
@marksteve8373
6 months ago (edited)
Great stuff! 2 corrections:
1. Omar did not take off Khalid as the commander of the army because he thought he had political ambitions! He demoted him because he didn't want people to idolize him thinking that victory was because of him, and not because of God's support. This is because people started saying that as long as Khalid's the commander, we are absolutely winning, and that to Omar was something ungodly because people were placing their confidence not in God, but in Khalid. Dr. Roy went on to say that when Omar met the Roman bishop, he was dressed in rags saying he was a simple man who is satisfied with a simple meal. How could a man like that fear that someone else would take the leadership away from him? In fact, when the first caliph died, Omar was so reluctant to be the 2nd caliph that the people literally had to beg him because he thought it was too big of a responsibility to assume and he feared he might do something unjust that can upset God. He was extremely nit-picky about what he said and he kept having second doubts continuously asking himself: "Did I do what pleases God? Did I say the right thing?"
2. When Khalid was on his deathbed, he said: "..it was my wish to die in the field of battle, and now I die in this bed, just as a camel would die" he said a camel, not a cow.
Other than that, this was a magnificent lecture and I enjoyed every minute of it.
@bediha
5 months ago
he talks like there is a thousand people in front of him. Keeping this level of enthusiasm with 15 students is awesome
@Official_CIA
4 months ago
how in the world is there not a movie about this guy .. what a legend
@manfelt2959
5 months ago
I was doubting when this professor said Khalid is one of the top 3 warriors in history. But every story that he narrates about him, my jaw just dropped. What an amazing man. Can’t believe a dude like this existed years ago.
@awaisafridiyt7736
4 months ago
14 students attended and 1,200,000 students watched it across the world. this is called global village (whole globle acting and connected like a small village) the future of our education is truly impressive. i wanna thank all the staff who recorded this whole lecture so clearly (in terms of voice) and shoot from different angle to keep us engaged and finally uploading it this long all together and not in parts (otherwise we would have never watched it full)
@ashifhassan1148
1 year ago (edited)
One correction : Umar ibn Khattab (R) never hated Khalid ibn waleed (R). He was reminding the people that victory comes from Allah. We are merely humans and we must be humble and praise Allah for what we have achieved.
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Im going start also by making a completely subjective statement
1:16
that when it gets on the austin school youtube channel we'll draw a bunch of ire and i'll probably get a stream of
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nasty comments but i like that so uh and it is this that palette abnormal
1:30
elite was one of the three greatest warriors of all time and that's one of the reasons why i want
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to cover him is because i just want to do a profile in a person who uh if if you're interested in warfare it
1:43
totally embodied warfare so this is a talk about war and and i'll probably also get a little bit of flack for over
1:50
glorifying war which is cool too i'm okay with that as well um when i for the record when i was at
1:56
the university of maryland university college in their history department we were trying to create a war history
2:02
department so this is part of my mental illness um so having said all this
2:10
i want to start by actually attacking the way history is taught in the united
2:16
states and uh the reason is is because
2:22
of the way we structure western civilization courses so if you take western civ 1 and western civ 2
2:30
the general idea in most of the textbooks are set up this way is that western civ 1 will cover
2:36
everything till 14 92 or 1648 whatever arbitrary
2:43
year they picked to stop western civ 1 and then western civ 2
2:48
will be everything since 1648 so in other words we're going to spend 16 weeks
2:55
talking about the first 5 000 years of western civilization and then we're going to spend 16 weeks
3:02
talking about the last 350 which
3:08
is based on two really big flaws the first is sort of a proximity bias
3:14
because the last 350 years or closer to us they therefore must be more important
3:20
which is definitely wrong for example the outcome of the battle of
3:25
actium in 31 bc i guarantee you has way more impact on your day-to-day lives
3:33
than uh the outcome of the british one of the british defeats there were multiple in
3:39
afghanistan in the 19th century but the defeat in afghanistan in the
3:44
19th century was it in the last 200 years there were the british have been beaten four times
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two times in the 19th century um and so it's closer to you
3:55
but it has a much smaller impact than that event 2 000 years ago the battle of actium and so for the first problem is
4:03
this bias is wrong the second problem with this bias
4:09
is its racist implications it is a profoundly racist bias because what it
4:16
attempts to do is distill western civilization into a history of how cool
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white people are as opposed to actually looking at western civilization
4:27
for what it was which was not a color-based endeavor
4:32
and if anything it was founded by brown people so then it it's sort of an attempt
4:38
by french british and english scholars to
4:43
capture something that they didn't create make it theirs and then divorce it from its creators and i can prove
4:50
this to you really simply in fact when you take that western civ one class
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weeks one and two cover mesopotamia and egypt in fact your class is probably
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structured like this week one was mesopotamia week two was egypt every professor is different every
5:09
university is different but probably weeks
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3 4 5 and 6 were greece and then maybe 7 8 9 10 11
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12 13 14 or rome and then 15 was the medieval period
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which is a thousand-year span of time covered in one week and then week 16
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the first part of the modern so if they went to 1648 they went to that right in that last
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week the reason why this is
5:45
rooted in in a profound form of racism is because of the following the class
5:50
admits that western civilization was created by iraqis and egyptians
5:55
it starts in mesopotamia in egypt it admits that and then and then it
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pretends that western civilization got up and ran away
6:06
and began inhabiting italy and germany and england and never again
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ended up in the middle east which is preposterous because all the middle east could ever
6:18
do as the founder of western civilization is simply evolve its western civilization
6:26
do you see what i'm saying it it's not like it could lose it it is it it just evolved differently than italy or
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germany or england but it doesn't make it any less western sieve
6:39
and so the way we teach western civ one where we do one week maybe maybe two
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weeks on the medieval period actually takes us to the next level
6:52
because i'm going to talk about an event that takes place in that we act as if the medieval period which
6:58
we call the dark ages only took place in europe
7:04
and in fact we've renamed the birthplace of western civilization the middle east
7:10
as if it's in the east when it's clearly not in the east since it birthed western civilization
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right and then we ignore everything that was happening
7:23
in the middle east during the medieval period and let me just give you an idea of what was happening in the middle east
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during the medieval period so while europeans had no indoor plumbing and no paved
7:35
roads and their life expectancy was 40 and the way they took care of their waste was
7:40
they would do it in a chamber pot and fling it into the street the middle east had indoor plumbing that
7:47
brought fresh water in and took sewage water out the middle east had streets that were
7:52
lit up at night with oil lamps in part because i want to set the mood
7:59
show you the technology that was available at the time and then tell you why what follows falls
8:07
it's the battle of khadgai uh i didn't actually so i filled up this map i was having the
8:14
caesar decided his family was going bankrupt that the best way that he could solve the bankruptcy was to start an
9:16
illegal war with the celts living in gaul conquer them and then plunder their
9:21
resources and enslave them and so that's what he does and he becomes fabulously wealthy and he saves
9:27
his family from bankruptcy he was part of a secret illegal
9:34
arrangement with two other men the three men were in the senate there
9:40
were two patricians and a plebeian the senate always wanted a plebeian on board
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and the plebeian of course was pompey magnus the most famous plebeian to be in the senate and then caesar who is a
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patrician and another guy named crassus nobody ever remembers classes
9:57
crassus and pompey hated each other's guts and there was a little bit of fear that maybe a civil war would break out
10:03
so to prevent the civil war crassus pompey and caesar got together and
10:08
created this secret little power arrangement so that they could control the senate and then basically the three
10:15
of them would rule rome and everybody would pretend somebody else was doing it
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not cool crassus sees what caesar does sees how
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wealthy caesar becomes and goes wow i want this crassus was the governor of
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syria so he thought who's the nearest rich what's the nearest rich place i can go
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conquer and he went it's persia let me attack it and so he took
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uh forty thousand romans and they marched from syria
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into the persian empire and they met at karhae
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forty thousand romans uh 32 000 infantry and they were heavy
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infantry right think of roman legionnaires with the interlocking shields and the spears called pilum and
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they had a little gladius a little a little short sword and they would march in tight ranks heavily armored they were
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basically just a giant human wall pointy human walk because they had the spear sticking out
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and then about 4 000 light cavalry and about four thousand medium cavalry
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and they went and they they meet the persians that cut hay
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they mean eight thousand persians on horseback 8 000 infantry uh cavalry and which is
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what they had they had 8 000 cavalry and the persians that they met were
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light cavalry with bows and arrows so the romans were like oh we got this
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40 000 versus 8 000 what are they going to do shoot arrows at us so the persians ride up
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and they fire arrows from horseback and the romans were like okay testudo
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testudo is where you take the shields they interlocked you could you could connect them together
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and so they locked them together this way and then the row behind them held the shields up like this and then
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the row behind them held their shields up so that they interlock to make a roof and a wall
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and the persian arrows bounce harmlessly off the top just it probably sounded
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loud but otherwise nobody's injured and so at this point the romans are chuckling they
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were like what are you gonna do just keep doing that you'll run out of arrows eventually and so then the romans march forward
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slowly and then persians turn around and fire another round of arrows at the romans and then
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they ride off so now the romans think okay well let's jason
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so they go out of testudo because you can't run like this you can't run holding a fort near
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you need to lower your shields so they lower their shields and they take off on foot running
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and they're chasing the 8 000 persian horse archers the persian horse archers
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turn around in their saddles and fire backwards nobody had ever done that in
13:20
battle the romans are shocked they're so surprised by the thing they don't have time to pull up testudo and hundreds of
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romans go down
this rattles the romans they're like whoa we can't just chase these guys okay we
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need to be a little more cautious and the persians start running up a hill so now the romans are slowly following
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after them and the persians turn around and shoot but because the romans have slowed down they go back into testudo and not many
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are injured they don't quite get into testudo in time so some of them do get injured
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and so it slows the romans down they're getting a little nervous about all of this but then the persians go over the top of
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the hill so now the romans are like well we might as well run i can't shoot through the hill
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so they start running and they run up the hill and just as they're cresting the hill
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to their shock and dismay the romans see one
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thousand cataphracts cataphracts were fully armored
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soldiers on top of armored horses the first time europeans will do that
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put a fully armored man on top of an armored horse is 14 centuries later
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at the end of medieval europe the persians were technologically 14
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centuries ahead of any european society in terms of heavy cavalry
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one thousand qatar frauds was far superior to 8 000 roman cavalry because
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they were they were tanks there was almost nothing you could do to them and they're charging up the hill as the
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romans are charging down the hill so the romans charging down the hill are trying to stop and they're shouting to the guys
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behind them hey stop running but the guys behind them can't really hear them in part because there are some of them
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are on the other side of the hill but in part because of all the noise and the guys running down the hill can't
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stop running because if they do they'll get knocked down and trampled to death and so they're forced to run towards
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these cavalry units they can't get into formation and the cataphracts cut through them like a hot knife through
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butter it's a catastrophe romans are dying everywhere the cataphracts get to
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the top of the hill they turn around and come back through they get to the bottom of hill they turn around they come back through the romans are doing everything
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they can to try to create order and get back into combat formation and they can't do it eventually crassus's son who is up on
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the hill gets identified by one of the persian warriors they kill him cut off his head stick it on a spike and jam it
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into the ground so that its dad can see his head the romans are completely disheartened
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crassus comes up with a new strategy because while the cataphracts are going up and down the hill the horse archers return
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and they're just shooting arrows at the romans who can't get into formation let alone go into testudo and so the romans
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are getting hammered by arrows and cut to pieces by these heavy cavalry men
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and so he decides you know what we'll do we'll just fight this until the persians run out of arrows
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it's always a bad day when your goal is to get the other side to run out of ammo because they're shooting at you
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you know what i mean it's also a really bad day when the persians brought 1 000 camels
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loaded with 1 000 arrows each
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they had a million arrows and as the persian horse archers are firing the arrows the camels just ride
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up to them and hand them more for all intents and purposes a million
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arrows versus 40 000 men like the persians had an unlimited supply of ammo
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crassus's strategy is a disaster and the persians 9 000 soldiers are tearing these romans
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to pieces the only thing that saves the romans is the sun goes down
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and the persians and the romans basically call it they break up into camps to eat and cook and go to sleep
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in the morning crosses comes out and he says let's talk
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and the persian general his name is suret he's on horse
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and soren says there's nothing to talk about he had a stick with him he draws a line
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in the ground and he says this side is persian this side is rome that line is the euphrates
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river and crassus goes no and when he does one of the roman soldiers free freaks out reaches over and grabs
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surrend the reign of syren's horses and the fight starts again
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because the persians see that and they just swords come out and they and they just tear the romans to pieces again on
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the second day about 10 000 romans escaped
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about ten thousand romans were captured including crassus
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and twenty thousand romans were killed and we don't have real firm number but
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about 200 persians died
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when you outnumber the enemy five to one and they kill you
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at a ratio of a hundred to one that's a bad day
that event triggers almost 700 years of back and forth
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warfare between the romans and the persians just back and forth
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if you were to take all the all the fights and stun them together
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the romans managed to keep so this is this is the border between the romans and the persians they managed to keep
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something like this for most of that time period because the romans had a
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fantastic navy in the mediterranean so every time the persians would capture syria or palestine or egypt or anatolia
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the romans could respond with their navy and deploy troops behind the persians and then that made it so the persians
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could never really hold any land to the west of their empire but as a general rule the persians
2
22:46
and before long africa itself began to grow the rice and as they traded with other people the rice
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began to spread across africa until it got to places like egypt and before you knew it rice was growing in mesopotamia
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and before you knew it rice is growing even in southern parts of europe the reason
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why this is a problem is because to grow rice you flood a
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field and when you flood a field you create a place for for mosquitoes to grow
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malaria malaria-burying mosquitoes and malaria ends up tearing up
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the entire region from spain to iran populations
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the life expectancies absolutely plunge if they were 40 45 they dropped to 20 25
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and as a result rome's population goes into dramatic decline and so does iran's
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and they're just barely scraping by and then as if that's not enough
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there's there's an outbreak of the bubonic plague it's frequently called uh justinian's
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uh plague in the middle of the sixth century and it tears rome and persia to
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pieces the bubonic plague does this really weird thing where it looks like it it's on an 800 year cycle
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where it'll be dormant for 799 years it'll wake up
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tear through the human population for a year maybe two max and then go dormant again when i say
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terror through the human population the last bubonic plague outbreak which was 1348
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killed 40 percent of europeans in a one year span of time
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it killed 60 percent of uh middle easterners and north africans in that same year
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so just put this in perspective we're running about a two percent fatality rate with covid
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not a 50 fatality rate um
so by the time we get to the 6th century a.d the populations
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of both the roman empire and the persian empire are dramatically reduced there are just simply fewer people living
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which means less food smaller armies and a terrible economy
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the romans are barely so some of you might be a little confused because you've been taught that
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rome fell in 476 and i want to just restate rome did not
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fall in 476 a.d rome fell in 1453 a.d
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and that's nonsense all rome did was reunify so there was only one emperor
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and the capital was constantinople which in this map is spelled with a k
and to make a long story a short a persian general his name was uh
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uh see where there's there's parts of the roman empire that are they have uh vertical lines through them
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shahbaz carved that chunk of the roman empire off and and began ruling it himself
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basically because he eventually himself rebels against the persians and so there actually ends up being three empires one
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empire that stretches from egypt to armenia ruled by shah bahraz the persian empire to the east and the roman empire
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to the west eventually heraclius makes a deal with
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shahbaz to try to make him the new emperor to end the war
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heraclius actually ended up raising shah bahraz's son his name was nikitas
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and he raised him as a christian and so emperor heraclius is thinking nicaitus
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will eventually become the christian ruler of the persian empire the the struggle between rome and persia will
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finally end and so he he pushes really hard backs chaparrazz
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finally takes over tisifon the persian capital in 628 so this war went
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26 years he takes over the persian capital
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becomes the persian emperor he even mints a coin with his face on it and 40
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days later is stabbed to death but the war ended so that was good
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it's just the goal wasn't achieved 6 28
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and this is where the intersection takes place between
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the story i wanted to tell you in the in the background that i gave you
30:17
in 610 in arabia so if you went right off the map to the south
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that's where mecca is and and then steven's going to scroll down for us right there where it says
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um there is a man who receives
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prophecy from the archangel gabriel and his name is muhammad and he becomes
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the prophet (S.A.W.) who will create Islam i'm not going to give you the whole story but i just want to make sure that we're
him in and eventually the city gets renamed medina nebi which means the city of the prophet today we just call it medina so
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if you look at a map off you won't see a thread on there a modern map you'll see medina that's that city
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in 625 the muslims are going to have a fight with the meccans the battle uhud
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and the meccans beat the muslims in 627 the meccans attack yathrib and
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they fight a battle called the battle of the trench khalid ibn walid was a soldier in both
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of those battles in 625 he was there when the meccans defeated muhammad and
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the muslims and he was fighting for the meccans against the muslims in 627 he's there
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again at the battle of the trench where the muslims defeat the meccans
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afterwards and we don't know exactly when but within two years he he switches sides and he converts to islam
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in 629 that's why i know it's within two years he's marching with
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uh soldiers from yathrib north so see where it says petra go to
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the east of that there's a city called or a town called muta and he marches towards muta with this
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army three thousand arabs three thousand muslim arabs and their goal is to attack the roman
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empire
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at the right time on the right day in the spot where the persians were at
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night and they wiped out the third 20 000 man unit with almost no losses
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they dispatched 60 000 men in a maneuver that i bet a contemporary military force
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would never be able to execute let alone three times in a row
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insane it shouldn't be removable he gets to where it says duro
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that's the city of firaz firaz was the border between the roman
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empire and the persian empire the persians of the romans hated each other's guts they had been
48:52
fighting each other six six twenty eight plus 52
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right it was 53 bc the battle of karhae but there's no year zero so you have to
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subtract one that's why i'm doing 52. so what what is 28 plus 52 80.
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for 680 years the romans and the persians had been fighting each other
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can you comprehend 680 years of war like i don't even know what that means
49:22
what do you what does that even mean by the time khalid gets to firaz the persians the
49:30
romans looked at each other and went we are no you are no longer the enemy we have a new enemy i don't know where
49:36
these guys even came from because you have to remember at at this point in time the persians had
49:43
been an empire for 1 200 years
49:50
and the romans had officially been an empire calling themselves an empire for 600 years but they had been imperial for
49:59
the 300 before that because even before rome was an empire it owned spain you
50:05
know north africa it owned syria it owned turkey it owned greece
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right and so you have 900 years of imperial history for the romans and 1200
50:17
years of imperial history for the persians there's 21 centuries
50:23
between those two empires and they're also technologically the most advanced civilizations on earth and they had
50:29
massive populations compared to the arabs they're down because of malaria but the arabs don't have any rivers
50:38
they don't have the agriculture capacity to support large populations the arabs are outnumbered
50:44
they're out technology they're out monied they're out experienced they're out
50:50
equipped and khalid in one year has captured iraq
50:57
our military was there for eight years we didn't capture anything we captured ieds in the face
51:09
so the persians go to romans they're like okay we're going to fight this one as allies right and the romans are like
51:14
yes yeah we're good because in the meantime an arab army has attacked from this side
51:20
and is trying to get to jerusalem and so the romans know that the arabs
51:27
you're outnumbered you're out technology you're out money and you're facing two empires
51:34
do you attack both at the same time that makes no sense
51:40
but it's exactly what the arabs did they attacked the two oldest most powerful empires at the same time
51:48
even though they were outnumbered by one let alone both
51:54
and so the romans are like yeah yeah we'll work with you so at firaz the combined
roman army was 150 000 men against
52:19
15 000 muslimers
52:24
so khaled arrives khalid is on the east bank of the euphrates the persians and the romans
52:30
are on the west bank there's a ford and a bridge which isn't convenient if you're moving
52:36
an army it's nice and so hallett is on the pilot needs the
52:42
persians of the romans to cross the river to fight so he very politely
52:47
backs his army up from the bridge in the ford and split it into three five thousand
52:53
man units he'd like that and he put one up river one down river and then pull
53:00
the other one away from the river and he just waited
53:05
so the persians and romans start to cross the bridge and the they're also crossing the ford at the same time
53:11
and he waits and he waits and he waits and then he does a prayer as he's
53:17
waiting and he says god if you give me this victory i will go to
53:23
mecca and i will do the hajj i know i'm going to die i know there's
53:30
no way we're going to defeat 150 000 men today but that's what i will do i'll go i'll
53:35
run and i'll do the hajj and uh and i'm actually happy that i get to die
53:42
as a warrior here today when 50 000 persians and romans had
53:47
crossed the euphrates he blew a horn the men that were up and down river
53:52
attacked them by going along the riverbank and tried to then merge at the bridge in
53:59
the ford so that they would cut the guys who had crossed off from the
54:04
guys on the other side then what khaled did was he took the 5 000 men who against 50 000 and he has
54:11
them charge into him and he had he had his men as thin as possible
54:17
and then he backs his man up and then he charges again and then he backs his men up and he charges again
54:22
and every time his horses go in to those men it compressed them a little bit it compressed them a little bit more
54:30
so after a while the persians the romans are so compressed they can't move their arms they can't swing their weapons
54:37
he's just compacted them together and they realize what he's done to them and they panic
54:43
and they turn around to run back to the river to cross it fifty thousand men turning all at once
54:58
and then the muslim arabs just went in and started killing them as they're running
55:04
by the time the battle was done 200 muslim arabs were dead 50 000 persians and romans were dead
55:17
what is this
--------------Allah Akbar Allaaaaaahhhh - R.A. - S.A.W.
55:23
He's like okay i'm alive that's a surprise
and so what he does is he he orders his
55:29
men back to hiram so what he does is he says okay
55:35
i need to arrive at hira i need to show up on top at the front of my army but i've got to now go
55:42
to mecca to do this hajj so he takes his fastest horses and his best man and they
55:47
race across the desert as fast as they can they get to mecca he puts on a hood
55:54
so that nobody will see his face he quickly does the hajj he jumps back onto a horse and he rides as fast as he
56:00
can he gets to the front of his army just as it's arriving at hira and he
56:05
assumes the position as if he was there the whole time and he marches his men into the city
56:10
and a few days later a messenger arrives from mecca sent by abu bakr khalif and it said you
56:18
were spotted in mecca don't do that again
Watched in the middle somewhere: Continuous Lightning 2023 03 16 21:09
The Austin School • 1K views It went on like this for 40 minutes!!!!!
...
and his goal is to get the romans to run towards the bridge because there's nowhere to go because the muslims
1:08:36
actually have the bridge just the romans don't know and he comes swinging over the top and he smashes the roman left flank
1:08:44
really hard he breaks the roman cavalry in it that was there and he breaks the roman army that was there it's the
1:08:50
cavalry unit and the army start to retreat they're running in two other roman units sending them into
1:08:56
disarray and then the romans tried to respond with heavy cavalry vahan sees what's
1:09:02
happening he organizes cavalry he draws it in but it's heavy cavalry and it's
1:09:07
slow khaled comes in with his light cavalry and he attacks them before they can get into more formation destroys
1:09:13
them then he takes his cavalry and he slams it into the back of the roman army it breaks and goes into full retreat and
1:09:20
that's how he took forty thousand men against a hundred and twenty thousand men at yarmouth and destroyed them
1:09:26
fahan got away with with a cavalry detachment khalid grabbed his fastest horses and
1:09:33
his best men and they took off and they chased general vahon and they caught up with him just outside
1:09:39
of damascus and khaled lets his man
1:09:45
tear up vahan's man until the only man standing is vaha
1:09:50
and khaled told his men don't touch him and then he comes up to varhan and he says you are a man a man's man
1:09:59
and so i'm gonna give you a man's death and they dueled one on one
1:10:05
and he kills vahon and then khaled goes and recaptures
1:10:10
damascus emperor heraclius holds a council
1:10:17
and he asks his remaining generals
1:10:23
what should we do and the generals tell them we've lost syria it's done there's nothing we can
1:10:28
do about it and so heraclius gets on a ship and he says farewell syria you have been a
1:10:36
lovely province and now you will be a lovely province for the arabs and he
1:10:41
withdraws and that was the last time second to last time there was a roman
1:10:47
army in syria they'll they'll get in one more time but they don't really keep it for long
1:10:54
khaled in his army now returned to jerusalem which on this map is hiroshima
1:11:01
in case you were wondering and when they get there
1:11:06
um the romans have largely abandoned it the roman military has but there's enough
1:11:14
people manning the walls that you can't get in
1:11:19
so they are already stuck outside trying to figure out how to get inside so they can capture this holy city
1:11:29
the archbishop of jerusalem a man named safranius by the way a christian arab
1:11:36
a loyal roman citizen indicates he's willing to negotiate
1:11:43
but only with omar abner the khalif or the khalif is all the way back in
1:11:49
mecca it'll be weeks before he can be sent for and then return
1:11:55
so they come up with a scheme and the scheme is
1:12:02
since khalid is umar ibn khattab's first cousin he actually looks like him
1:12:07
so they pretend khalid ibn waleed is the khalif they meet with safranius and while
1:12:14
they're talking somebody had actually met omar ibn khattab i'm sorry had met
1:12:20
khalid and knew that was khalid and so he tells the phoenix you're being
1:12:27
duped it's not really the halif it's some other dude it's that general that that's been tearing us up his
1:12:33
funniest is outraged he goes you lied to me and he calls off the negotiations for
1:12:38
the surrender so now the arms are stuck getting the chalice
1:12:47
sophronius comes out of the gates weeks later to meet the caliph because he sees the
1:12:52
khalif's army arrive and as he's approaching he sees a man leading a camel
1:13:00
at the front of the army so for the record the rich arabs the arabs who were good
1:13:07
soldiers didn't usually ride camels they usually rode horses arabians
1:13:13
and for those who don't know arabians are fast and agile and they have crazy personalities
1:13:19
and so they're perfect for warfare camels are a little bit clumsy and slow
1:13:25
they serve a purpose in warfare but you're better off on an arabian in any case
1:13:31
the arab army is being led by a man leading a camel with a man on the camel
1:13:37
so safronius he's got a giant red hat because he's also a cardinal right he's got gold
1:13:44
tassels actual gold hanging from his hat he's covered in gold jewelry he's
1:13:50
wearing red robes he's covered in perfume he's on electica the lectico was
1:13:55
the couch that the romans would ride and then they'd have like four or eight men depending on how big it is carrying it
1:14:01
and then he has two men one on each side fanning him of course right that's what jesus would want from
1:14:07
his bishops that's exactly right and he's coming out on this lectica
1:14:13
being found and he comes up to the guy on the camel
1:14:18
and he says uh where is the caliph and the guy on the camel does like this he nods with
1:14:25
his head at the guy leading the camel so stephonius turns to the guy leading the camera goes where's the caliph
1:14:30
and the guy leading the camel says i'm the chalice and stephonius goes dude you're dressed
1:14:35
in rags the guy's pants were or mended multiple times his shirt was mended multiple
1:14:42
times and he goes no no i'm the khalif and zephonius goes you've just conquered
1:14:47
iraq and syria and all of palestine minus jerusalem how is it you're so
1:14:54
poor and the khalif goes well why would i collect wealth i'm we're not
1:15:00
doing this war because i'm trying to plunder anything i'm a humble man with humble needs i
1:15:06
just need good meal and then zephonius goes why are you riding the camel
1:15:13
and omar goes uh that's my servant on the camel and we take turns so that neither one of us
1:15:18
gets exhausted at this point sephoras is like oh what who just conquered us
1:15:25
what are these marxists (lol)
and so cephonius gets off the lectica
1:15:32
because he's shamed off of the thing and he says okay i i want to talk to you about our
1:15:40
surrendering the city to you and and the khalif says
1:15:45
i have an idea let's walk to the city and i'll tell you
1:15:50
what i was thinking the terms would be and then and then so we'll start there
1:15:56
and support it goes yes of course and as they're walking
1:16:03
says why don't we do this all roman
1:16:08
politicians leave jerusalem
1:16:13
you just go if you're a politician so if you're a top bureaucrat
1:16:20
an officer and you can take anything you can carry
1:16:25
so you can take gold as long as you can carry
1:16:31
and sophonias goes okay uh i mean that's reasonable that's actually more than reasonable i
1:16:36
just assumed you'd enslave them and take their goal i don't i don't see how anybody would be
1:16:42
mad about that and then what else and the khalif goes oh no i was thinking
1:16:47
that's it uh we we don't do anything else and sophonius goes wait a minute i am
1:16:53
really confused so when us romans capture a city we enslave a segment
1:17:00
we plunder the city probably a little bit too much raping too
1:17:05
we might even burn some of it just for grins and giggles and then we declare it to be ours
1:17:12
what about that we're not going to do any of that no
1:17:18
plundering no raping no enslaving we don't do that stuff
1:17:24
and then sephonius goes oh but you're going to like seize property in the city and so and the khalif goes no no we're
1:17:30
not going to take anybody's property we're going to leave the city exactly like it is the only thing i want to do
1:17:36
is eject the roman politicians with whatever they can carry
1:17:42
and sophomores because there's nothing to negotiate yeah we surrender the city this instant
1:17:47
i i don't understand actually they walk into the city
1:17:52
khalid is one of the men following us all these guys they're on foot
1:17:58
if they've got their horses with them they're leading their horses by the reins right because the leadership is on foot there's no way they're going to
1:18:04
ride in they're walking and this is a holy city to them because jesus is holy to them because
1:18:10
the jews were holy to them and so they see this as a holy city
1:18:16
sophronius goes tell me about your religion as they're walking through the streets
1:18:22
and so um starts telling about islam
1:18:27
sophonias goes it just sounds like a variation of christianity i
1:18:33
i feel like our religions are shockingly similar and
1:18:39
um goes yeah because they are i mean we thought we were doing uh judaism 3.0
1:18:46
it never occurred to us that we were going to be received as being so different and
1:18:52
uh he goes okay since you've given us such amazing
1:19:00
surrender terms my alarm is going on and i can't turn it off and it's so embarrassing it's telling me to put my
1:19:06
kids to bed i should have remembered to turn it off
1:19:13
but it didn't occur he says you've given us such amazing surrender terms and because i feel such kinship with
1:19:18
religion will you do me an honor will you come to my church and pray in your
1:19:24
muslim way next to me as i pray in my christian way and um goes never
1:19:31
and sophonias goes why he goes i'm the khalif
1:19:36
the first place i pray in jerusalem is going to become a mosque the muslims will take it and they will create a
1:19:43
place of worship for muslims and you will lose it and i don't want you to lose your church
1:19:52
and sephonius goes oh uh okay what if we find an empty piece
1:19:58
of jerusalem and we just pray there and omar R.A. goes yes i accept
1:20:04
an empty piece something that nobody owns so they go and they find an empty lot
1:20:10
and they pray the archbishop in his christian way the caliph in his muslim way side by side
1:20:19
it is a mosque today that spot commemorating the first place that the
1:20:24
first muslim god of prayed in in jerusalem he nailed it he he knew what was coming
1:20:30
and he saved the church of the holy sepulchre for christians because that's the church cephronius
1:20:37
wanted him to pray in
1:20:44
at that point the khalif says i want to see the temple mount
1:20:50
and sophonius goes why and goes because it's holy
1:20:55
it's holy everybody it's holy the christians it's holy to jews it's holy to muslims and sophomores goes nah we
1:21:01
haven't been treating it as holy day anybody and um goes what do you mean
1:21:07
and so sephora says so after we tore down the second temple of solomon when we conquered palestine
1:21:16
we turned the temple mount into a garbage jump to punish the jews
1:21:22
and so and the khalif goes what do you mean and stephonius goes yeah we've been
1:21:28
there's like 500 years of refuse on that thing it's just a garbage dump
1:21:33
and he goes show me they walk up to the temple mount and the khalif can't believe what he's
1:21:40
looking at he falls on his knees and he begins clearing the garbage by his hands
1:21:46
his army sees their leader on his knees clearing garbage and they run up and they start
1:21:52
clearing the garbage themselves and they clear the garbage off the temple mount
1:21:59
the caliph goes okay i want to meet some of the jews living in jerusalem
1:22:05
and sophonius goes there are no jews in jerusalem
1:22:11
and the khalifa goes what do you mean there's no jews in jerusalem the city is holy to the jews
1:22:17
how could there be no jews and he says well us christians we pretty
1:22:22
much murder them every chance we get we really hate jews in fact in the war we just did against
1:22:29
the persians the jews sided with the persians and so we murdered 20 000 jews
1:22:34
in jerusalem and completely purged the city of its remaining jewish population
1:22:41
and omar ibn al-khattab (r.A.) goes no this is wrong you can't do this
1:22:47
and so he turns to a convert to islam a jewish convert to islam
1:22:53
and he says i need you to find me 80 jewish families that were willing to volunteer to move
1:22:59
to jerusalem so we can re-establish a jewish presence in this city and that's
1:23:08
how the muslims conquered jerusalem
1:23:13
and that's the stuff that's left out of your history books
1:23:22
isn't that crazy because isn't that an amazing story
1:23:30
after jerusalem omar turns to khalid and goes i know you fought at yarmouk and i know you
1:23:37
impersonated me i really hate you you're gonna go to mecca
1:23:44
and you're gonna spend the rest of your days there you're not no more combat for you i'm
1:23:50
retiring you i actually don't think he died in mecca he did leave but he never fought another
1:23:57
battle that was it that was the end of his military career he was he (R.A.) died in bed at age 50. i don't
1:24:05
know what was ailing him something got him and his final words were
1:24:11
you cannot put your hand anywhere on my body
1:24:16
without touching a combat wound i am covered in scars
1:24:24
it was my dream that god would let me die as a man on the field of battle
1:24:32
here i am in a bed dying like a cow (*-> camel)
1:24:41
and that's where i'm going to end this story
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Knowledge, knowledge: Origins of debt: Michael Hudson reveals how financial oligarchies in Greece & Rome shaped our world Geopolitical Economy Report • 36K views Economist Michael Hudson discusses his book "The Collapse of Antiquity: Greece and Rome as Civilization’s Oligarchic Turning Point", and how this history from 2000 years ago is still so relevant...
hi everyone I'm Ben Norton of geopolitical economy report and today I have the great pleasure of speaking with
0:07 a friend of the show The Economist Michael Hudson and I'm very excited to be discussing his newest book the
0:15 collapse of antiquity Greece and Rome as civilizations oligarchic turning point
0:21 this book is an absolute tour de force it's an incredible work not only of
0:28 economic history but simply I would say anthropology and economic archeology I
0:33 think it really shows that many people know Michael Hudson for his work on economics and finance but I would say
0:41 that a book like this shows that he's also an economic Anthropologist or an economic archaeologist and he goes
0:48 through and and details essentially the history of the emergence of the modern
0:54 Financial system in it with its roots back in Classical Greece and Rome and
1:00 the role the the defining role of debt in the development of all of these political models and this is a book
1:08 focused on classical Antiquity so it goes from about from the 8th Century of
1:13 BC or BCE until the 5th Century A.D or
1:18 CE in in his book Michael uses BC so I'll use that for the dates and Michael
1:25 starts I mean this is a 500 page book he starts discussing the emergence of
1:31 interest bearing debt and the emergence of Classical Greece in the 8th Century
1:37 BC and then he goes through Classical Greece and then the classical Rome the
1:43 emergence of the Roman Republic and the Roman Empire the rise of Christianity and the influence on political culture
1:50 today so Michael I mean there's so much that I want to ask you about this is a
1:55 fascinating book and I want to start with a very general overview this is the
2:02 second in a Trilogy that you're writing which is a history of debt the first
2:07 installment is and forgive them their debts why in 2023 or in the past few
2:14 years why have you spent so much time writing about the the emergence of debt
2:20 and this history from 2000 years ago uh why do you think it's so relevant for us
2:26 today in the 21st century many people think that debt and the payment of
2:31 interest and the fact that uh all debtors uh uh have to pay their debts
2:37 and the uh it's assumed that the rules of Finance are Universal they've always
2:43 been this way and that there is no alternative uh and you could say that the political message of modern economic
2:50 history is there is no alternative and there never has been an alternative therefore there isn't not any
2:57 alternative in the future uh all deaths have to be paid and uh creditor
3:03 interests have to take priority over uh debtor interests and those of the
3:08 indebted society as a whole well uh beginning in the 1980s I thought of
3:13 writing along a history of how countries were ruined by other uh foreign
3:19 creditors uh I began really in the eighth uh 18th and 19th century uh then
3:26 I I went back to classical Antiquity and uh I found out by about 1982 that there
3:32 was this whole un undiscovered uh or Unwritten about area of the ancient near
3:38 East uh and debt cancellations and since uh what I'd been writing in the 1970s
3:44 was all about the fact that the third world countries of the global majority cannot pay their foreign debts uh the
3:52 fact that uh uh early societies coped with the debt problem not by letting the
3:57 creditors foreclose and property passing into their hands but uh by writing down
4:03 the debts so that they would maintain a balance between what was owed and what
4:08 could be paid and uh the uh it spent uh it took about 25 years uh
4:15 working uh with Harvard uh University that put together or let me put together a uh a group of atheriologists and
4:24 egyptologists and anthropologists uh to look at the uh very origins of debt and
4:31 economic relations and uh privatization and land ownership and land rent in the
4:36 ancient near East and I wanted to uh start really at the beginning and uh
4:42 look at how the original idea of uh Debt Service of uh interest payments of uh
4:50 land tenure uh were all put in place uh already in the third millennium BC and
4:57 how these Dynamics changed over time uh and that took me until about 2015 uh
5:05 from uh I think 1994 through 2015 to write the uh ancient near Eastern uh
5:13 five volumes of colloquia that I published there and uh then I began to
5:19 uh follow-up well what happened in Antiquity and I subtitled that book
5:26 the uh the uh Turning Point uh most people think of uh Grace and Rome and
5:34 Western Civilization as began uh just the beginning of everything uh as if
5:39 somehow Greece and Rome of uh developed their economic practices and their
5:45 social practices out of uh primitive tribes somehow developed uh a lot of
5:50 this was uh uh simple racism uh that it had to be the Anglo-Saxons that uh
5:55 developed the economics uh it couldn't have been uh the Mesopotamians or the
6:01 Egyptians uh much less uh uh easterners uh who who did any of this and by
6:07 starting the history with Greece and Rome uh you missed the point that uh
6:13 they were sort of on the periphery of three thousand years of development from
6:18 Sumer to Babylonia to uh Assyria uh to uh Judea and Israel uh to all of these
6:28 near Eastern countries had a common uh practice and the common practice was uh
6:34 What uh the uh uh a Jewish religion called uh the Jubilee or the
6:40 cancellations of uh debts in the 50th year that was put at the very center of
6:47 uh Mosaic law in Leviticus chapter 25 and uh the Jewish laws were taken uh
6:54 word for word from the Babylonian practice uh you'd cancel the debts a personal debts not the commercial debts
7:01 but the personal debts that were due you'd uh re you'd Liberate the bond servants that were pledged and you'd uh
7:08 restore lands to people who lost them and uh that way you prevented an oligarchy from
7:16 developing and taking over all of the land well uh what happened uh in the 8th
7:23 Century BC was there was a really bad climate from about 1200 BC to about 800
7:32 BC uh there was a populations couldn't make it on the land
7:38 that they lived on uh there was a great population movement there was a great shrinkage of population and uh there was
7:45 a really a Dark Age writing disappeared uh and uh before 1200 BC you had
7:53 syllabic scripts and uh when writing was reinvented it was the alphabetic script
8:00 from uh The Phoenician uh countries and then uh the Jewish lands and uh when uh
8:07 when gradually you had in this Dark Age sort of
8:12 Warlords or mafia families uh taking over local uh districts and local cities
8:18 and classical historians themselves have used the term mafiosi uh States for
8:24 these small cities uh Greece and Rome were very different uh environments from
8:31 the near East all of the near Eastern countries had Kings uh had uh Central
8:38 rulers and the role of central rulers was really to preserve economic balance
8:45 to preserve a an army A fighting force of citizenry that would uh fight to
8:51 either defend or sometimes attack uh uh enemies uh and the idea was Kings didn't
9:00 want an independent oligarchy to develop because of an oligarchy developed they
9:06 would end up with uh indebting the population and the indebted population
9:11 would lose its land to the oligarchy and would have to go and work for uh uh the
9:17 the creditors and uh if they had to work for the creditors then they couldn't serve in the Army and they wouldn't be
9:24 available for the public infrastructure projects well all of this is what I talked about in the first volume and
9:30 forgive them their debts but the uh Greece and Rome in the west didn't have any uh practice like that so uh
9:37 gradually you had the Revival of trade uh along the Mediterranean and the
9:42 Aegean uh in the 8th Century BC then you had Syrian Traders Phoenician Traders
9:49 coming and they brought weights and measures uh and uh commercial practices
9:55 uh to Greece and to Italy and these practices uh included uh charging of
10:01 debt there was no indication of charging of debt in Greece or uh anywhere else in
10:07 the Mediterranean uh before the 8th Century uh in the uh Mike and in culture
10:14 before 1200 BC there was no interest bearing debt uh but this was brought uh
10:21 to Greece and Rome and this was something completely novel and the uh the mafiosi leaders of local cities uh
10:29 immediately did what uh uh wealthy people would have liked to have done in
10:34 uh uh Judea uh and Babylonia they would have liked to make loans uh to uh
10:41 debtors who uh would pledge their land and mostly their labor and uh then the
10:46 debtors would have to work off their debts uh by working for the creditors and ultimately they'd lose their land
10:53 and uh they'd be absorbed uh in a dependency relation to the creditors
10:58 well uh that uh was prevented from happening in the near East because
11:04 rulers prevented it and uh uh if they didn't prevent it they would be
11:10 overthrown well by the 8th century tree you had a similar uh revolutionary
11:16 process occurring in Greece and Rome starting in Corinth uh you had reformers
11:23 usually from the leading families saying look this is an awful way to or we we
11:28 can't just have a dictatorship and impoverish everybody just to make uh these mafiosi families uh uh Rich we've
11:36 gone to overthrow them we're going to cancel the debts and we're going to redistribute the land and they were called tyrants the word Tyrant meant uh
11:44 someone who paved the way for democracy by liberating the population from debt
11:50 dependency by uh by uh creating a popular support instead of just a very
11:57 concentrated polarized land ownership same thing in uh in Italy the Roman
12:04 kings according to the Roman historians all prevented a uh an oligarchy from
12:10 developing by uh making sure that uh the uh the people who came to Rome were
12:18 would be have their own access to land they wouldn't lose it to creditors uh
12:23 and uh to make sure that the Kings wouldn't represent the oligarchy uh Rome uh would appoint Kings from other
12:31 regions they wouldn't uh point one of their own leading families as kings they were always an outsider uh Persia had
12:38 had the same practice of uh making sure that you uh Persian cities would have
12:43 outside uh rulers so that they wouldn't get involved in the international
12:48 conflicts and favoritism among families well uh yeah what happened in in Rome
12:55 was uh finally uh you had a room
13:00 became a magnet for people who uh ran away from a very centralized uh mafiosa
13:08 like uh Estates and uh all over the Roman history was well it was originally
13:13 settled by fugitives well fugitives were runaways in flight and uh this practice
13:19 of flight had happened you find it all the way through the Bronze Age in Mesopotamia uh debtors would uh flee
13:26 from uh who would avoid falling into debt bondage just by fleeing away uh by
13:33 the 14th century in uh Mesopotamia they were called the hapiru and they seemed
13:39 to be the uh the predecessors of the Hebrews uh and uh Hebrew speakers and
13:46 the hapiro were just uh uh sort of like pirate gangs uh or uh armed gangs who
13:54 were had run away and they were very egalitarian among themselves and uh they
13:59 said well you were not not going to let inequality develop is that it developed in the countries that we've run away
14:06 from and a similar uh thing apparently happened in Italy people ran out to Rome
14:12 and Rome built up a kind of proto-democracy under the Kings but uh the uh the oligarchy overthrew them in
14:20 509 BC and uh the oligarchs uh uh spent
14:26 uh the next five centuries trying to fight against uh anyone who would try to
14:33 cancel the debts and redistribute the land and that was the constant uh cry throughout all of antiquity uh I
14:41 mentioned the Corinth before uh in Sparta uh you had leaders come who would
14:47 uh redistribute the lands that they grabbed from the neighboring hillets that they enslaved and they banned money
14:54 altogether just to prevent uh debt to the largest amount uh uh largest degree
15:00 possible and finally in Athens which was the late Comer uh Athens is one of the
15:06 last uh city-states to develop democratically and uh Solomon uh in the
15:13 early in the fifth century BC uh canceled uh
15:18 um the uh uh the debts that had tied the population to the land but he didn't
15:25 redistribute the land so uh that was sort of a moderate uh democracy and it was the followers Pista Stratus uh and
15:32 the sons of pisostratus uh that uh actually ended up uh democratizing the
15:39 uh uh the Athenian economy so uh for the next five centuries and uh from Greece
15:44 uh all the way to Italy you had a one revolution after another uh urging uh
15:51 exactly the policy that it preserved stability in the near East cancel the
15:56 debts redistribute the land prevent an oligarchy from uh uh concentrating all
16:02 the wealth and all the land uh in their own hands uh and uh the uh in in Rome
16:09 certainly uh you have uh Century after Century uh any popular leader who said
16:14 uh uh we've got to preserve economic balance by canceling the debts and uh uh
16:22 not letting people lose their land they were assassinated uh the typical uh uh
16:29 oligarchic political response was violence and uh political assassination and that went right down to the uh to
16:37 the second century when the uh the leading reformers
16:42 were killed and finally uh the catalane and his army urged that cancellation he
16:49 was killed and finally Julius Caesar was killed uh because they had feared that
16:54 uh he was going to cancel the debts although he only canceled the debts of the wealthy people not uh uh not really
17:01 the poor people so uh I I find the common theme that made uh Western
17:08 Civilization different from everything that went before uh was the fact that
17:14 they didn't cancel the debts that uh Western Civilization let an oligarchy
17:20 take over and instead of the basic rule was that uh debts have to be written
17:25 down to the ability to pay uh the uh Rome introduced uh a pro-creditor law
17:31 all the debts have to be paid no matter what the social consequences are no
17:37 matter how much Society is in injured by families losing their land and the land
17:43 being concentrated the money being concentrated the wealth being concentrated and political power being
17:49 concentrated in the hands of a creditor oligarchy uh uh dead as a debt and it
17:55 has to be paid well the Roman law is uh still the philosophy of modern law uh
18:03 the whole modern legal system is still based on that of Greece and Rome and I
18:08 wrote uh Roman Roman history after the uh the near Eastern history so that you
18:14 can see how this whole Evolution uh uh changed uh from a pro debtor uh uh
18:22 economy in which uh you had uh Kings and rulers uh preserving economic balance to Greece
18:30 and Rome where in Greece uh the word of invective was a tyrant and if someone
18:35 wanted to support a popular uh desires to write down the debts or
18:42 redistribute the land he was called a tyrant say and in Rome if someone wanted to cancel the debts and cancel uh uh and
18:50 distribute land he was called oh he's seeking kingship uh and uh so the
18:57 opposition to kingship the opposition to tyrants as if somehow that was a
19:03 destructive of uh civilization in the economy became the characteristic of the
19:10 kind of morality you have today and that uh that that Roman way of thought that
19:15 pro-creditor pro-oligarchic way of thought is uh what is really enabled
19:21 classical historians for the last few centuries to think that well our society
19:28 must have really begun in Greece and Rome and what began in Greece and Rome wasn't democracy uh because Aristotle
19:36 pointed out in his study of constitutions uh many cities had uh
19:41 Constitution that they called democracy but they were really oligarchies and Aristotle and also Plato explained how
19:49 democracies tended to develop into oligarchies as some families developed
19:55 enough power enough money to gain political power and uh then the
20:01 oligarchies made themselves into hereditary aristocracies uh until
20:06 finally uh some one of the aristocratic families fights against the other aristocratic families and takes the
20:13 public into their Camp by uh looking for public support by canceling the debts
20:19 and redistributing the land and overthrowing the reactionary oligarchic
20:25 families that were fighting against this economic progress and when you look at
20:30 the long perspective you realize that this is a thread that goes all throughout a history from the very
20:36 beginning of written records in the third millennium BC uh the turning points and the the the distinctive
20:43 economic dynamics that shape politics uh and economic Society our how Society has
20:50 handled the debt and so uh this uh the collapse of antiquity is a part of
20:55 showing how the refusal to write down the debts uh and the mass assassination
21:00 of uh uh politic politicians who advocated uh debt write down uh led to
21:07 uh the Dark Age uh that uh bequeathed it's a philosophy today and the third
21:14 volume of uh this uh sequence will show how we're uh undergoing today they
21:21 exactly the same Dynamics the Tor uh the Roman Empire apart and ended up
21:28 impoverishing it leading to a dark age that's the same Dynamic that we're seeing in western civilization today uh
21:36 and the important thing is to realize that it doesn't have to be this way that the whole rest of the world had a re uh
21:43 prevented this from happening except for western civilization and uh the western
21:49 civilization instead of being the origins of civilization turns out to be a detour from the near East and the
21:57 Asians now civilizations that were able to prevent uh this kind of financialized
22:03 Dark Age from developing
Michael this is such an important corrective and I do agree that it's so
22:10 relevant today not only considering all of those parallels but also because a
22:15 narrative that we've seen emerge in the past several decades is this fetishization of classical Rome and in
22:24 fact you probably haven't seen this but on social media today it's popular to see young conservatives and you know
22:32 far-right activists will use a Roman statue as the symbol on their social
22:38 media profile and there is this idea that you constantly hear among Western conservatives the concept of you know
22:45 judeo-christian civilization which is somehow conflated with Greek and Roman
22:51 civilization even though the Greeks obviously were not Christians or Jews and that the Romans weren't Christian
22:58 until Constantine but anyway the point is that there's been this imaginary history a kind of conservative
23:05 historiography that's been created that says that we have to go back to these great roots in Classical Greece and Rome
23:13 but you're pulling that entire rug from under their feet and saying that actually this Fantastical vision is not
23:20 true and I think one of the most fascinating things about this book that really made me made me Ponder when
23:27 I was reading it was your use of the term social Darwinism and the concept of Oriental despotism
23:36 because we've constantly heard I remember when I was in public school in the United States we've constantly heard
23:42 from any decades and centuries that Asia in particular has been dominated
23:48 historically by Oriental despots right authoritarians and dictators and scare
23:54 quotes right and that's still what we hear today I'm still waiting for these Western commentators to refer to any
24:00 Western Government as authoritarian it's always China and you know maybe Russia
24:06 you know the former Soviet Union but it's always the scary you know Asiatic hordes and now we see even Western media
24:13 Outlets like the Wall Street Journal portrayed Putin as a Mongol right so trying to link so-called
24:20 authoritarianism to Asiatic Heritage anyway the point is that you point out
24:26 in this book that this is rooted in this concept of social Darwinism which is not
24:31 actually linked to science or Evolution or even Charles Darwin himself despite the name it was popularized by Herbert
24:38 Spencer who was one of the main influences of the Austrian School of Hayek and all the libertarian right-wing
24:46 economists right so can you talk about this concept of Oriental despotism not
24:53 only in the past but today look at the way that Xi Jinping is portrayed in Western media and how when Greece and
25:01 Rome are portrayed as the beacons of freedom and supposed individual liberty
25:07 it's actually not really Freedom it's freedom for oligarchy that's what they
25:12 represent not freedom for average people it's freedom for the oligarchs to rule Society
well the concept of Oriental
25:20 despotism was developed by an embittered ex-communist Carl vitfogle uh who uh
25:27 looked at stalinism and said well stalinism is an expression of uh uh uh
25:33 the racist uh near East and uh he said it's the result of irrigated societies
25:38 he had an idea that it's been universally rejected by all archaeologists and certainly the five
25:46 archaeological volumes that I did for Harvard has shown that everything that bit Vogel uh made up in his mind is uh
25:54 just fiction uh vit Fogel said well uh irrigation is such a big project that
26:00 you need a palace uh to make a decision and if you have a central uh Power making a decision he's going to take
26:06 over just like Stalin uh we can't have anyone with power we have to get rid of
26:11 any kind of singular leader so vit Fogel just had an obsession with Stalin uh and
26:17 the fact is that the countries that he described that were despotic were not the irrigated societies and
26:23 archaeologists have found that when Babylonia and Mesopotamia uh other
26:28 societies that were irrigated they were done locally they weren't done with a a central planning because you can't
26:35 centrally plan uh agriculture very well it has to be uh basically uh local and
26:41 the whole idea of Oriental despotism uh was just picked up as uh and made into a
26:47 racist idea that all Asians are just as despotic is Stalin was and the
26:53 alternative is American democracy which means oligarchy and despotism of uh the
27:00 ruling class that we have today uh the neocons that are fighting in uh fighting
27:05 uh in the proxy war in in Ukraine so you you've had a kind of orwellian uh turn
27:12 about a phrasing and where the Romans uh denounced Kings for trying to protect
27:17 the people and the Greeks support had tyrants uh liberating populations from
27:24 Death uh today we say any uh with a President Biden any uh uh country that
27:32 where there's a strong leader that wants to build up living standards and prevent an oligarchy like uh China is doing is a
27:39 despotism so uh today any attempted democracy is called despotism and uh uh
27:46 any uh despotic country such as the United States and the client dictatorships that put in Latin America
27:53 and uh Ukraine uh is called a democracy uh that has nothing to do with uh ruled
27:59 by the people it means rule by uh a very centralized uh small uh oligarchic
28:06 ruling class uh that maintains Power by assassinating uh everybody who uh
28:11 doesn't uh agree with it and doesn't agree to be uh colonized so uh
28:17 when you see how the language has been changed uh throughout uh history and uh
28:25 uh you you realize that we're living in a kind of Inside Out World
- It is quite strange the events we see occurring today especially in Europe and other numerous examples throughout my blog...of the incoming authoritarianism; and they've been trying to paint Marxism as undemocratic and "evil" (despotic) etc. etc. for decades, preventing democracy in numerous countries throughout the world no matter the cost when it comes to human lives, life, human life...
sort of like
28:30 a Mobius strip uh uh ending up on the other side uh of things is uh you go
28:35 through everything yeah very well said and Michael a really
28:41 interesting point that you make in this book that I hadn't really not considered in the past is the role of kings and how
28:48 obviously I mean we're not monarchists we're not trying to defend monarchies there's a lot of reasons to oppose
28:53 monarchies it's ridiculous to think that someone should rule a society simply
28:58 because they had the luck of being born in the right family but you point out that the central authority of a king was
29:07 often a check on the power of the oligarchy and how oligarchs didn't want
29:13 to spend money on social programs and infrastructure and they wanted the state
29:19 to be weak because a strong State could serve as a check on their political and
29:24 economic control
- it is in Muslim and Christian beliefs that Jesus A.S. will in fact be like the King of the world is it not? Yet, our still Christian country denounces any singular person with a lot of power/control over their country, even if, in the case of Putin for example, that person is doing very good things for their country and their people.
- China, is much the same, and Western media sources and others who do not like these countries and their leaders will denounce them as being undemocratic and autocratic even if these countries aren't even monarchies or anything of the sort. It is quite uh, mind-blowing the level of trash people get fed by our media and the level of trash people actually, not just say, like a mistake, but publish and type for audiences of thousands...and these organizations like Microsoft, etc. MSN, put all this on their front pages.
- What happens when A.I. learns the truth of all these matters regarding history and the present? Isn't the Pentagon itself very afraid the A.I. will turn against it?
so when I read your book it also made me think of a book by Michael parente which is the
29:31 assassination of Julius Caesar where he talks about the demonization of Caesar by the Senate which was controlled by
29:37 the oligarchs in Rome so without obviously defending monarchies I mean
29:42 we're not monarchists I'm wondering if you could talk about the battles that happen between the economic oligarchy
29:49 and certain Kings not all but certain Kings well in the early Bronze Age in the
29:55 third millennium and second millennium BC societies couldn't afford a uh a
30:02 selfish ruling class that kept all of the power in its own hands because if you kept all the power in your own hands
30:09 and you indebted everybody to yourself everybody would get up and leave they'd just uh flee or they'd overthrow you and
30:15 replace you with another uh a king and of tribal societies often will uh choose
30:22 a uh a local tribal leader maybe from another tribe and if the tribal leader
30:27 becomes very uh selfish uh they'll get rid of him sometimes violently and
30:34 replace them with somebody who really serves society as a whole well you can do this in small scale societies and you
30:41 could do this in the third and the second millennium BC uh but by the first millennium BC with the rise in wealth
30:48 Society could afford to have a ruling class and uh could afford not to be depend on its own citizenry to man the
30:56 army they could afford to uh hire mercenaries and so uh certainly if you
31:02 read the Jewish Bible uh that's really the first history where you realize kings were bad uh and uh the Jewish
31:09 Bible describes uh the Kings as uh really uh becoming frontman for the
31:16 domestic oligarchy instead of uh the Kings checking the oligarchy uh in uh in
31:21 uh Judea they became uh sponsors of the oligarchic which is why Israel uh
31:28 withdrew and said what uh interest do we have in the house of Jesse (Judaism I think he said) meaning uh
31:33 David and uh uh the the judaic so you could look at Jewish history as part of
31:40 the class war of debtors against uh uh against uh the creditors and uh the fact
31:48 is that uh after the Roman kings were overthrown obviously in the fifth and three fourth third third second and
31:55 first centuries nobody was going to make a king of Rome nobody was going to make a tyrant of uh of the Greek lands but
32:05 they kept using the word for tyrant and the King for anyone who represented the Democratic popular interests uh the the
32:13 objective of the Roman oligarchy was to prevent anything Democratic from
32:18 developing and the Roman election system weighed the voting according to how much
32:24 land uh you owned it's very much like a voting in America today when the Voting
32:29 is according to how much money the campaign contributors can give to the Democratic or Republican parties and
32:36 that determines uh really their policies uh the voting in Rome was weighted so that when the wealthiest groups of the
32:43 population had voted first uh it didn't really matter what the population with
32:49 lower land Holdings and lower Financial wealth had because uh uh the wealthy
32:55 classes had already outvoted everybody else and uh they held on to power uh with an Iron Fist
- Obviously, the similarities, the similarities...
and by and the iron
33:02 fist was uh a very violent fist uh from the very beginning as soon as the uh
33:08 kings were overthrown in Rome uh you had uh the uh secession of the plebs the
33:14 plebs said wait a minute you're uh uh now the oligarchy's taken over you're grabbing our land you're you're reducing
33:20 us to debt you're reducing us to bondage we're going to leave you know Rome was populated by people coming there when it
33:27 was a nice place to live not a nice place anymore they walked out they negotiated uh and thought that they had
33:34 an agreement but uh it didn't turn out to hold very well so 50 years later around 450 BC there was another walkout
33:42 and they were repeated secessions of Rome but really the Roman uh population
33:48 didn't have anywhere to go in Italy because the lands at that time had become much more held up than they were
33:54 thousands of years earlier when anybody who didn't uh who was enslaved could
34:00 simply run away and you could find someplace nice to live with other people without much money that uh treated each
34:06 other fairly
- That is communism when the state dissolves and people go back to living in communes. It is not...
and said okay let's not have any bosses here let's uh run Society for ourselves well uh that kind
34:13 of uh egalitarian society ended uh in the first millennium BC and uh a king
34:21 wouldn't have helped what you needed was a political system that would enable people to be elected to run Society in a
34:31 way that it would not be impoverished by concentrating uh all the wealth in the
34:36 hands of a creditor class by getting everybody in debt and then foreclosing uh on them uh the uh the Romans were
34:43 against were very much like other Republicans or President Biden today they don't want to spend money on public
34:51 services or social spending they want it to be done through charity so it's up to
34:56 the wealthy people to decide who to support and how much to support that whole Spirit of Charity was uh their
35:02 alternative to a public responsibility making a means of self-support uh a a
35:09 public uh uh right a uh making the land a public utility making credit of public
35:16 utility uh anything wanting to make a basic need of public utility was called
35:22 well that's what the Kings tried to do uh back in the uh seventh and 6th Century BC that's what the tyrants tried
35:29 to do and we certainly don't want that because look where that led to that led to democracy you can't have that you've
35:35 got to have autocracy and uh we we're for Freedom we're for the freedom of the
35:40 wealthy people to do whatever we want we're for the freedom of the Creditor to indebt the debtor that was the Roman
35:47 concept of freedom
- That's why you need a state to protect the people. It forms naturally anyway because people build and to live in an ordered and civil society there must be hierarchy - I am not an anarchist or total libertarian, but a lean little bit more liberal, but am more authoritarian now, more so, since becoming Muslim as I have stronger moral values and understanding which actually should be a shield against being an oppressor, but actually, I do understand that - how many modern Islamic states actually become very authoritarian especially when it comes to social issues and on their own people - the pull to the right from the religious side and the pressures leaders face from looking weak and too liberal etc.but I think you have to, get on the ground, talk with the people etc. - "The Way" Lao Tzu - "the Muhammadan Way", Sufi ways, look towards the past (the first four Caliphs may Allah be pleased with them) - there is a balance, Islam is a balanced religion...is a very deep religion, - I started to read some of "the Analects" by Confucious, it seems very good...No wonder the Chinese are such nice people and family is deeply valued and important. Not to say that Muslims aren't nice people either...:)
of how the oligarchs often saw certain Kings as a threat to their power is
36:43 simply also it's not it's not a glorification a monarchism but also the importance of central Authority and
36:51 being able to discipline these the wealthy classes because the more you
36:56 have decentralized authority the more the more the the oligarchs are able to
37:01 dominate society and enslave the debtors and extract rent from them
37:08 um Michael another point that I thought about a lot when I was reading your book is the importance of who is telling the
37:15 story in history especially when we're going back thousands of years and
- Oh. They touch on the point I just made.
also say about historiography not just today but for hundreds of years about
38:30 the way that historians have written about Rome and also Greece well my book
38:35 describes how Cicero uh was exiled for uh murdering uh politicians who he
38:42 didn't like in violation of Roman law even Roman law with its assassinations
38:47 uh did not uh permit uh uh the uh the murder of people who didn't agree with
38:53 him and from his Exile uh uh right after uh Caesar uh was assassinated uh
39:00 Cicero wrote to the Senators who killed them he was so sorry that he was not
39:06 there that he could not plunge another knife into Julius Caesar uh so that's where he stood and finally uh uh
39:13 Octavian uh and uh the uh The Heirs of uh Caesar when there was a civil war
39:19 after Caesar was killed uh finally hunted uh down Cicero who had his own Army trying to take over uh Italy they
39:27 they uh seized him in the Army and they beheaded him uh uh they they finally uh
39:33 put him to death so uh this and uh of course he's uh he's made into a saint by
39:39 the reactionaries because what what uh Cicero did this wanted to do to Caesar
39:44 well the the murders that Cicero did is just what western civilization would like to do to uh to uh president XI of
39:53 China to President Putin of Russia uh that's their philosophy uh so of course they love him and they say that's what
39:59 western civilization can do you cannot prevent a check on the oligarchy if
40:05 you're not willing to assassinate everybody who doesn't agree with you you're either for us or against us is
40:12 George W bush said uh so of course that's the philosophy that uh looks at
40:17 the uh uh kikaro uh who uh did everything he could in the Senate uh uh
40:24 along with uh his colleagues to sort of prevent the uh the uh supporters of
40:31 democracy uh The Advocates of debt cancellation from bringing anything to a vote uh they uh they would uh find that
40:39 there was a uh an omen in the sky or we saw birds flying the wrong way that means there can't be a vote it's it's
40:45 bad luck uh the uh the role of religion and uh just uh preventing uh uh the
40:52 Senate from making any rule when even the Senators said uh we can't go on this way if we go on this way there's going
40:59 to be a Dark Age and uh we're going to be a slave Society uh uh Cicero and uh
41:04 uh his colleagues did everything they could do uh prevent any uh reform that
41:11 would have uh prevented a Dark Age uh in terms of Rome
so can you talk about what led to the collapse of the Roman Empire and
42:18 specifically how this system this colonist system in which you had these
42:23 tenant Farmers helped give birth essentially to European feudalism
42:29 well the uh I have to begin with the beginning of your question uh the uh the
42:34 public land of Rome was land that had conquered from foreigners it wasn't its
42:39 own land which was already owned it was uh land that you conquered and uh the big turning point in Roman history were
42:46 the wars with Hannibal uh from Carthage uh that ended around uh 200 uh BC and uh
42:53 Roman had uh was really fighting for its life against Carthage and Hannibal and
42:58 uh it asked for contributions and uh in order to uh contributions of gold and
43:05 silver jewelry to meltdown and coin to pay the mercenaries and pay the Army to uh support it to fight uh against
43:12 Hannibal so uh the uh wealthy families uh uh around 200 uh 10 208 uh BC uh
43:20 contributed uh money to the uh uh to Rome and uh the our word money comes
43:26 from the Temple of Juno Moneta uh where the uh mint uh was situated and where
43:32 money uh was coined uh uh in Rome and uh when the wars were all over then uh one
43:40 of the oligarchic families said well we uh we gave you all this money uh we
43:47 won the war we should really be the winners because it was because of our money that we won the war uh it wasn't
43:54 really a a gift uh let's treat it as a debt and so uh uh Rome said okay we'll
44:00 we'll owe you the money right down you know all the jewelry okay we'll give you uh uh we'll give you uh back all the
44:07 money that uh you contributed to the the war that we thought was uh progressive taxation and uh they uh said well it
44:15 turns out we've spent all the money on Mercenaries and fighting uh all we have is the land that we've conquered so uh
44:21 they gave uh Rome gave the land to the wealthiest families and Arnold toynbee
44:27 uh in his book uh Hannibal's Revenge uh is one of the uh the best uh Roman uh
44:33 classical historians and I said this was really the turning point of Rome and the Revenge was that by winning the war
44:39 against Carthage uh Rome uh seized the land that gave it gave to the wealthiest
44:45 families that use their wealth to fight and take over the whole economy and turn
44:51 it from just a uh a smaller oligarchy to a really vicious armed uh police State
44:57 uh oligarchy that uh Rome went on to uh uh thoroughly destroy not only Carthage
45:04 but also uh uh the the great Athens and uh Sparta uh and the other uh Greek
45:11 States and uh uh especially uh Rome fought against uh the Spartan Kings uh
45:17 Aegis and cleomanus who tried to cancel the debts uh and in order to create uh
45:25 their own citizen Army again and the Romans uh saw uh Sparta uh canceling the
45:31 debts as the great uh uh threat and uh destroyed it along with uh the rest of
45:37 Greece and even after that uh there were uh the rest of uh uh the uh the Greek
45:42 territories tried to cancel the debts in Rome just came in and really just
45:48 destroyed destroyed Greece over the next uh 50 years from about 200 to 150 BC so
45:55 uh that was uh the sort of prototype for making uh the large latifundia and
46:02 latifundir or what uh uh was uh said the
46:07 letter fundia have destroyed uh Rome and it's because uh the latter fundia uh the
46:13 land ownership staffed with uh first debtors and then tenant Farmers uh who
46:18 needed to uh take work on a farm in order to get enough food to eat and
46:24 subsistence uh that really became the prototype for uh what became feudalism under uh uh uh the empire
Michael another very interesting part of your book which is also discussed in
46:39 your in the first book in this Trilogy and forgive them their debts is the role of Christianity and you explain how
46:46 Christianity emerged as a revolutionary social force and how the early
46:52 Christians preach the importance of debt forgiveness and also were
46:59 essentially dissidents against the Roman Empire you quote Matthew 5 10 in the
47:05 Bible which says blessed are those who suffer persecution on account of Justice
47:10 however you note that that quickly shifted in the 300s in 311 Rome ended
47:19 the ban on Christianity in 321 Constantine converted to Christianity
47:24 and he made Christianity the state religion and then you you describe how
47:30 Christianity essentially the leaders of the church essentially
47:35 encourage this ideology that was the ideology of the Roman Empire in support
47:41 of the oligarchs completely doing a 180 politically so can you talk about the
47:46 origins of Christianity as a revolutionary force that preached against debt and how Christianity was
47:54 essentially co-opted by the Roman Empire and the church essentially changed its
47:59 Doctrine and became a a force for oligarchy
well by the first century of
48:06 BC there was a pretty much of a conflict within uh Judea between creditors and
48:13 debtors uh and uh you had the wealthy uh wealthiest Jewish families uh supporting
48:20 uh a group of uh Scholars uh the rabbinical uh School uh who uh developed
48:29 the idea of uh uh wanted to get rid of everything in the Jewish Bible that
48:35 called for debt cancellation and you had Rabbi Hillel uh credited with uh
48:41 developing a clause that if borrowers uh would uh borrow money they would uh sign
48:47 a that uh an agreement that if the Jubilee here uh Phil they uh would not
48:54 take advantage of it and would not ask for the debts to be canceled and the lands to be given back uh well uh there
49:01 was a whole group of people who apparently uh [Music] that we find in the Dead Sea Scrolls uh
49:09 that were followers of Milky zadok and others who uh wanted to uh preserve the
49:16 uh the Jubilee year and uh Jesus uh was uh one of these people who wanted to
49:22 restore the True Believer and in his very first sermon that he gave when he
49:27 went to the synagogue and unrolled the scroll of Isaiah and read about uh the
49:33 the year of the Lord uh restoring uh the uh uh the the land to the people uh
49:40 Jesus said uh the year of the Lord was the Jubilee year and Jesus said that was his uh Destiny uh that was what he had
49:48 come to Proclaim and uh that was uh immediately uh the uh the wealthy
49:53 oligarchs of Israel went to uh the Romans uh who governed uh the country and said uh we know you don't like kings
50:00 because Kings want to cancel the debt well Jesus says he's the king of the Jews uh he's doing just what you don't
50:07 like kings to do he wants to cancel the debts won't you kill him uh because we really can't kill him that's not our
50:13 philosophy uh so and uh indeed Jesus was killed but the movement that he started
50:19 uh obviously went on and rather transformed uh form under uh uh many of
50:26 his followers uh but uh basically uh it went on and uh it spread uh throughout
50:34 the near East and to uh Rome and uh many of the uh wives of the Emperors and the
50:40 wives of the oligarchs uh thought that uh uh this was very fair and converted
50:45 their husbands uh to Christianity and uh it ended up uh indeed that uh the
50:51 emperor Constantine made uh Christianity the state religion well there's a
50:57 problem when uh in making uh Christianity a state religion of a state
51:02 that is built on absentee land ownership and pro-creditor laws what are you going
51:08 to do well uh one of the uh Central points that was uh retained in
51:14 Christianity was uh Jesus's Sermon on the Mount with the Lord's Prayer and forgive them their debts and uh the word
51:21 used was monetary debt uh uh we have the early translation of uh the uh the uh
51:29 your Bible into Greek and that's it's very clear the word they used was for
51:35 monetary debt well uh the problem with the Romans uh was well now that we've
51:40 made uh the Christian religion uh we've got to have something to do with Jesus
51:46 uh we can't get rid of Jesus all together uh how what can we change well
51:52 uh the big change occurred uh uh with uh the transformation of Christianity in
51:59 North Africa and it was transformed by uh two people in particular one was
52:06 Cyril of Alexandria uh who uh realized that you have to kill every intellectual
52:12 who can read uh the Bible uh he he uh he uh LED uh he was an anti-semite who said
52:19 we've we've got to free Christianity from everything that has a Jewish background uh and he developed uh uh
52:26 assassination programs against the Jews uh he killed the uh
52:32 the mathematician Woman hypashia by sending his thugs down to the beach and
52:38 cutting away all of her skin uh with shells and he developed the concept of the Trinity uh that sort of got rid of
52:46 everything about Jesus being a human being fighting a class war is a political uh reformer he said well you
52:53 know Jesus was really God he wasn't a he thought God Jesus the Holy Spirit they're all the same thing and he re he
53:00 wrote the whole Nicene Creed by uh convening a Christian counsel and uh
53:06 basically uh the killing uh the people who didn't
53:12 agree with them uh but the real villain in Christianity uh whose uh hope uh was
53:18 uh Saint Augustine uh and Saint Augustine essentially uh in North Africa
53:24 there was the whole fight uh beef uh while Christianity was uh being made uh
53:31 the religion the Romans were fighting against the Christians in North Africa and uh they insisted in confiscating all
53:38 of the Bibles and the uh the holy books of the Christians and the Jews uh and uh
53:45 there was a a whole anti-roman uh opposition there uh well Augustine uh
53:53 once uh uh Christianity was uh made the official religion there was the fight
53:58 who are what group in North Africa are the Romans going to support when they
54:04 say okay you can build Christian churches now uh we're going to give money uh to the Christians to build
54:10 their churches but uh who are we going to give it to uh and are we going to give it to the people who said we don't
54:16 want the Romans to come and and kill us or are we going to give it to uh people who say well uh you know I'm gonna get
54:23 rid of all this uh debt cancellation talk so uh Augustine uh essentially the
54:29 uh the people who were representing the old-fashioned Christians were called the
54:35 donutests and uh they were opposed by the augustinians and uh the donatists
54:41 sort of asked the Romans to won't you come in and get rid of these newcomers they're uh August stain and his gang are
54:48 not us well Augustine said look yes indeed send in the Army but I want you to kill all the people who don't agree
54:55 with me uh and uh they said what's the disagreement about and Augustine I'm
55:01 summarizing uh vastly that a chapter that I explained this in Augustine said
55:06 well they think that the Sermon on the Mount was a and the Lord's Prayer is about cancel the debts it's really not
55:12 it's all about uh the sin of egotism especially sexual egotism uh it's about
55:18 uh basically uh yeah we're all sinful and uh there's nothing you can do that
55:24 uh these These are Christians uh want the wealthy people to give their money to the poor uh we can't have that if
55:32 they give the money to the poor there's only one kind of poor they can give them to the poor churchmen who were part of
55:37 my church not there for their Church uh but they have to give the money to the
55:43 church are the only spokesman for the poor so so don't give it to the poor give it to the church who were the
55:49 spokesman for the poor so that of course they could live in the kind of luxury that uh Augustine uh lived in and uh
55:56 basically the uh the Lord the uh Lord's
56:01 Prayer was uh forgive us our sins and Augustine had a whole fight with a
56:06 northern uh Christians and and they said wait a minute uh people can live a good
56:11 life and not be sinful and August they know everybody is a sinner uh they have
56:18 to uh get rid of their sins by giving their money to the church by what uh later the medieval Church would call in
56:26 indulgences you have to buy indulgences to get rid of the sin this inborn with Adam this inborn sin with Adam has
56:34 nothing to do with a creditor it has to do with being egotistical and keeping your money and not giving it to to me
56:40 the church uh and uh the uh great uh scholar who studied this whole period uh
56:47 Brown uh said that in effect you should look at uh Saint Augustine is uh the
56:52 founder of the Inquisition uh as I go into in uh uh my later books and so
56:58 basically you had uh a cleaning you had from North Africa uh a uh a
57:07 de-christianizing of uh the Christian church and uh you did have a Welsh uh uh
57:14 uh reformer try to say that uh uh no you don't have to live a sinful life you can
57:19 live a moral life and uh be a Christian and uh Augustine uh uh had him
57:25 excommunicated uh and uh all the all the books of the donatists have been uh
57:30 destroyed uh the books of the uh uh the opponents of August rain have all been burned Augustine started the book
57:37 burning saying if you're going to be a Christian you have to burn every book that's not Christian uh he was uh uh he
57:44 turned Christianity into a religion of hate uh hatred against uh of total
57:50 autocracy and authoritarian control and uh that uh
57:55 that part of what uh ended up may uh it ended up making Rome a
58:02 a sort of outlier by uh the end of the uh fifth century when my book uh uh sort
58:09 of ends you had uh uh five centers of Christianity Bishop bricks uh uh the the
58:16 five Bishops there were the the leader uh the leading uh part of Christianity was in Constantinople uh because after
58:25 all it was Constantine that had uh made Christianity the state religion uh they
58:30 pretty much uh retained uh the original Christian religion uh you had Antioch uh
58:36 you had uh Jerusalem uh uh and uh then you had uh as an outlier uh Rome that
58:43 was sort of ended up being taken over by uh local families and uh it became sort
58:49 of a Backwater until the uh uh the 11th century so uh you you had the whole
58:54 essence of Christianity transformed and uh turning it away from a pro-creditor
59:02 from a pro debtor religion into a pro-creditor uh uh religion and an
59:08 authoritarian religion uh essentially uh denouncing everything that had been the
59:16 original Christianity
and a key question in this discussion of
59:22 the development of Christian thought and ideology is the question of usury of
59:28 exorbitant interest being charged on debtors by the creditors there there was
59:34 no uh different there were no words in any ancient language to distinguish
59:39 usury from interest there was the same word the idea that usury is uh charging
59:45 above the interest rate is a modern concept only only dating from the 12th century uh the interest was interest
59:53 Usery was usury they were all the same the same idea no distinction
59:58 thank you for that clarification
um something that you do point out in the book is that
1:00:04 in 325 at the Council of nasia the
1:00:10 church banned the practice of usury by members of the priesthood however that
1:00:18 didn't actually wasn't really implemented later in the future and you discuss how the church ended up
1:00:24 supporting the Roman oligarchy that was in 300 when they banned it I mean of
1:00:29 course we had 2 000 years of development since then can you talk about how the
1:00:35 question of usury has developed over time within Christianity and how we get to today you know especially with the
1:00:41 rise of protestantism and Calvinism where many Christians especially in the U.S basically think that getting as rich
1:00:48 as you can through any means you can including usury including exploitation of the poor is totally fine and there's
1:00:56 nothing ungodly about exploiting poor people well that's the topic that I
1:01:01 talked about in the third volume that I'm working on now uh the tyranny of debt which picks up the story with the
1:01:08 Crusades and really with the Reformation of uh uh Christianity and the uh 11th
1:01:14 century uh the uh as I said in the 10th Century uh
1:01:21 there was something that the Catholic Church itself calls the pornography uh
1:01:26 the rules of the concubines uh the rules of the uh it comes from pornography uh
1:01:32 uh that totally corrupt uh family from Tusculum near the uh Alban Hills near
1:01:38 Rome uh controlled uh who was going to be Pope uh just like they would appoint
1:01:44 the local uh mayor and the local policeman or whatever they'd appoint other local Pope or one of themselves
1:01:50 and you had their own family members monopolizing uh the papacy well uh
1:01:57 gradually uh they other
1:02:02 other Christians said we've got to reform this especially the Germans uh
1:02:07 the Germans said well we've got to sort of uh reform the papacy and take over and make it uh introduce Christianity
1:02:14 into the Roman Church
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